Speak Out 8/27/08

Infowarrior.... DU

Once again, you get it done. I am sure that you know who Joyce Riley is. She, a former US Army Nurse, began talking about Gulf War Illness back when it wasn't cool to do so, and almost single handedly fought the VA to recognize it.

Once again, it was a globalist, imperial minded Republican, George HW Bush who launched the Gulf War against Iraq, but refused to acknowledge that there was something queer affecting returning American troops from the Gulf. Joyce Riley appeared on talk shows years ago, before she got her own. She harrassed the VA, she spoke out, and finally, grudingly, the VA sais that there may be something to it.

I don't know if DU (Depleted Uranium) was soley responsible for the sickness that our troops experienced, in the cases of some, many years after their return, and it affected their family members as well, but it sure played a part in many of the cases.

"Hell, use DU because it goes through hardened targets, blow the crap out to the attacked nation, we don't care, because we will be in our cozy homes in Washington, D.C. If we lose troops, we will just get more. There are no jobs, they will join and like it. If we can't get enough to swell the Army of Imperialism, we will just get 30,000 Mexicans and OTM's to fight for our New World Order by promising them citizenship and citizenship for their foreign families. Ain't my kids that are going to die, so what the hell?" I am sure that was either Dick Cheney, or, George W. Bush. If it isn't an exact quote, I can safely say, it was their thinking.

Iraq now, is a much more polluted battlefield than it was during the Gulf War. The problems for our returning troops and their families has only just begun. That is the biggest sin of all, for they thought that they were doing the right thing, fighting for their country, when all they were are disposable pawns of the globaist, neocon elite and their war of imperailsm.

I used to think that imperailist was just a word that socialists and communists to describe my country. Imagine my dismay, now that I have discovered that if they weren't right about my countries leaders back then, it is sure as hell accurate today.

-- Posted by Robert Goodbody on Thu, Aug 28, 2008, 1:28 am CDT

Who Is Responsible for YOUR Soul?

I beg to differ, Opinion, Jesus is not responsible for your soul.

YOU are responsible for your own Soul, for God gave you FREE WILL. Why would God give you FREE WILL, if he was ever guarding your Soul?

You are invoking a cloudy, confused assumption that your sins are forgiven, that they are nailed to the Cross, you are washed in the blood of Jesus, and forever saved, with that of who is responsible for your Soul.

You, and you alone are responsible for your soul.

However, there is this.

Years ago, there was a famous author, a former Jeusit Priest who had been stationed in the Vatican who appeared on a secular talk show. During the course of the interview, the host asked Father Malakai Martin, he asked this elderly Priest, what he thought that God expected of us. Father Martin responded, that God was most interested in how we treated others here on earth. How do we interact with the sick, the truely poor, the imprisoned, the lame, as well as, others whom we come in contact with daily. Father Martin said that it was most important that we never cast stones in the path of another on their journey though life that could make them trip and not obtain Heaven.

In other words. If someone at work gets a promotion that I want, I should not try to get them fired, or, start gossip about them. If I know that someone I know is messing around on his wife, a woman whom I once dated and she chose him instead, I should not inform her of the infedelity, in an effort to but up their marriage and make him pay for winning her years ago.

I should not attack a public servant, such as Jay Prucell, just because I can later say that it was because of me that he wasn't re-elected. Likewise, I should not try to get someone fired, just to show that I have the power to do so.

We need to remember that Pride, Greed, lust, and covetness, are all sins. In my opinion, it is fine to be happy to be an American, to be pleased, and gratful to be an American, but when we start trying to inject "pride" into it, we need to be careful that we have not committed a sin.

In America today, we seem to celebrate sins, like Greed. We cloak it in many phrases that sound benign. Scrape all that away, it is the sin that is underneath.

Because we have FREE WILL, we are all responsible for our own Souls. We may have a Guardian Angel, who may look in on us from time to time, and, yes, Jesus may check up on us, too. Regardless, we are the ones who maintain our individual Souls, and it is we who will be held accountable. You may have confessed your sins, you may have made an altar call, or, many for that matter, but if you believe that your sins were lifted at Calvary, and that you can never held in account for your sins, that is a false doctrine. Why else would Jesus teld the prostitute to go and "SIN NO MORE." If her sins were forgiven, then he would have told her to go and try not to get a socially transmitted disease, instead of not to sin. Since he was to soon die for her, yours and my sins, he could have told her that, if that doctirne that is so widespread today, was a valid one. Through His death, our orginal sin was forgiven, and while He would rather that we not sin again, He has given us a pathway to be clean again, though repentance and attonment for our sins.

We should never cast stones in the path of another, to cause that person to stumble on their pathyway to Heaven. I would think that in doing so, that God would be most angry.

Just my opinion.

-- Posted by Robert Goodbody on Thu, Aug 28, 2008, 1:00 am CDT

Robert G - Wow, you've gone off the deep end. Again, have you been to Iraq? Didn' think so.


Doc - I can't explain the point any more clearly. I think you need to bask in the moment. I cannot dispute your data.

However, since you want to keep going down this road, I guess we need to take your posts from 24 hours ago where you rejected polling data because it didn't suit you and overlay them against your staunch support of that very same polling data tonight. I'd call that hypocrisy.

You had your moment, old man, and you blew it.

-- Posted by Just_Me_and_My_Opinion on Thu, Aug 28, 2008, 12:46 am CDT

Just_Me_and_My_Opinion

Sorry, Am I on over kill? Am I digging it in too much for your sensative little feelings? Garsh! What are you going to do January 20, 2008 when the republicons get evicted from the WH? Stroke out?

-- Posted by The_Doctor on Thu, Aug 28, 2008, 12:42 am CDT

Doc -

I feel like we're at an impass with this whole idiot, liar thing. I said you were right based on your submission of actual data - I can't prove you wrong. What more do you want? Are you so wrapped up that you were right about something that you just can't bask in the glory of it all. Are you upset that you took a beating on here last night and now you just can't accept my admission that you have good data?

Do you need a hug? The convention got you down? You do you need some more OJ (obama juice)? Come on, my little BO Spider Monkey ... let's get along.

-- Posted by Just_Me_and_My_Opinion on Thu, Aug 28, 2008, 12:36 am CDT

When is Sin not a sin? What is murder?

Opinion. I make no judgment of you personally. There are certain truths that cannot be expelled by covering them in a blanket of lies.

Certainly, not all Iraq-Afghanistan deployed troops are murderers, or, rapists. This is not the Viet Nam era military, where most of the military were draftees. This military has joined of their own will. Sure, some had few if any other options. Jobs are so scarce now, that some of these men and women are called economic draftees. It was either the military, or, starve. I think that this was considered when the globalists launched their globalism off-shore the jobs campaign years ago. It was a benefit. "We will have wars to fight, we will need bodies to put in boots, therefore, the fewer the jobs there available for them, the more bodies we will get to fill the miltary ranks."

Regardless. It is not necessary to actually commit a particular act, for it to be a sin. Anyone who is in country, off-shore on a ship, back home in the US, contributing to the war against the Afghan and Iraq people, to overthrow their government, to murder their leaders, to imprison their citizens in their own land, to torture them, to kill them, maim them, to cause them to thirst and to be hungry, they all contribute to the sin, and therefore hold some responsiblity and will be called into account. Even a secretary for one of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, has some accountablity for the death and destruction in Iraq and Afghanistan.

As I posted earlier. It is very difficult to rely on the UCMJ whereby you do not have to obey an unlawful order. Most of our troops were pumped up by the propaganda fed to them though their chain of command, the dishonorable POTUS, and the media. They actually thought that they were fighting an enemy of the American people. They thought that they were fighting that great boogey man, "terrorism." That is what they were supposed to believe. It was fed to them by propaganda professionals. After Nine-Eleven, American were angry, fustrated, and ready to strike at anyone. We didn't think, we didn't pause, reflect, and hold rational debate. Suddenly, the FBI had the photos of all the alleged "hijackers." Well, hell, even one of their passports, escaped the burning inferno in one of the towers and floated down the towers to the street, unscathed, unburned, in pristine condition. Hell, that was a miracle of God, and the American people ate it up. Damn, we are a stupid bunch.

God will not totatly forgive this greivous sin. Some soldiers will be given the opportunity to repent for this sin. It is a sin. Murder is a sin. Those who did not actually kill an Iraqi soldier, will still be responsible, to a lessor degree than one who did.

I believe that many of our troops know this, or, a bit of conscience is telling them that. Along with the fact of actually being there and seeing a lot of stuff that they should have never been exposed to is causing them a variety of problems that they would not have had to deal with if that scumbag piece of human waste and his neocon and Zionist minions had not forced upon them and this nation.

God is a forgiving God, but there will be varing degrees of repentance and attonment for thier souls to be cleansed. The first step is to recognized what happened to you, and to speak out against this war of no end, dreamed up by the New World Order, the hand maidens of Satan.

-- Posted by Robert Goodbody on Thu, Aug 28, 2008, 12:33 am CDT

Doc -

I watch MSNBC, Fox, CNN, read a little Drudge Report, surf right wing news, the Daily Kos, and occasionally a little Breitbart or Reuters ... it keeps me well rounded. It helps me sort thru talking points (of both parties) so I can disect the bits and pieces of real news.

-- Posted by Just_Me_and_My_Opinion on Thu, Aug 28, 2008, 12:31 am CDT

Doc (aka Obama's spider monkey),

Do you have a TV? I've seen it twice this evening; once when I was at the gym and again about 2 hours ago. I have no reason to lie, however, your link is good enough proof for me and I'l recant my previous statement since I can't prove otherwise.

(I think you got all riled up last night and told me polls don't mean anything and then went into some BO induced seizure. But I digress.)

-- Posted by Just_Me_and_My_Opinion on Thu, Aug 28, 2008, 12:27 am CDT

Doc -

You spoke too soon, Doc. I just had to go take an Obama. Whew, I feel better, but I do kind of feel bad that I flushed the Obama experience down the pipe.

-- Posted by Just_Me_and_My_Opinion on Thu, Aug 28, 2008, 12:21 am CDT

Babe, Get with the game! You're a day late, a dollar short, and a week behind. JUST was bragging last night how the POLLS (specifically) Gallup were showing how McCain was winning (ONE POINT LAST NIGHT). Now today it's changed. Sheesh!! READ THE POSTS AND KEEP UP!

JUST, Yeah...I figured my post would be your exit cue. Aww....wants wrong? Him don't want to play anymore since his BELOVED Gallup let him down??

-- Posted by The_Doctor on Thu, Aug 28, 2008, 12:17 am CDT

InfoWarrior

Last time I checked we now have a Volunteer military.

-- Posted by BABE on Thu, Aug 28, 2008, 12:15 am CDT

Just_Me_and_My_Opinion, I'm listening *crickets*

What's wrong, Gallup come back and bite you?

-- Posted by The_Doctor on Thu, Aug 28, 2008, 12:11 am CDT

Well folks, it's been quite the day. Tomorrow starts at sun up for me, and I look forward to seeing what the enlightened, disillusioned, and down right funny folks have to say tomorrow.


Doc - Keep coming at us like some crazy, old spider monkey all hopped up on OJ (Obama juice). You're one of the folks who makes it fun.

-- Posted by Just_Me_and_My_Opinion on Thu, Aug 28, 2008, 12:07 am CDT

The crime of Murder versus the action of justifed killings.

If Iraqis and Afghanis had entered your US home and attempted to kill you, you would be justified in killing them. If Iraqis and Afghanis had entered a military base in the USA with the intent to kill you, then you would be justified in killing them. If Iraqis and Afghanis has set up an ambush and attacked our military within the confines of the USA, then, you would be justified in killing them.

However, it is American and British occupation troops, with the treachery of mercenaires from Blackwater, CACI, and others, along with Israeli Mossad consultants, who have gone thousands of miles to kill, rape, torture, mutilate, imprison the good ole hometown folks from Iraq and Afghanistan.

There is no moral ground for the actions of the American horde in Afghanistan, nor, in Iraq. The war was based upon lies that were well known and agreed upon months before either Afghanistan and Iraq.

Now, that places American troops in a delima. Even though they are required to obey LAWFUL ORDERS, under the UCMJ, they are permitted to disobey an UNLAWFUL ORDER, even if it is issued by the Commander in Chief, the Secretary of Defense, or, someone in his chain of command. That is a rough row to hoe. Especially when the neocons and Zionists control this government with an iron hand. They would not be pleased if American troops, after moral reflection, stated that they could not be part of a war against an innocent people. However, if the soldier engages in the attack upon a people who never harmed the United States, or, the hair on an the head of an American, then, because they have a concience, and the God given discerment of what is right and what is wrong, they may suffer mental health issues as a result of following orders and killing the innocent in Iraq. By the way, EVERYONE in Iraq is INNOCENT, members of the Army of the Republic of Iraq, as well as civilians. They were minding their own business, when the neocons and Zionists who infest this Bush regime attacked them for no reason.

Regardless of whether the soldier when to war against the Iraqi and Afghani people with zeal for the killing, or, if they went reluctantly, but obeyed orders, they will still face the ultimate judgment. Excuses will ring hollow on that day which we all shall face. There is no excuse for what this nation did, nor, is there any excuse for remaining in Iraq.

All who participated, even if they never fired their weapon, if they assisted in the effort to invade, attack, occupy, kill the people of Iraq and Afghanistan, then their judgment shall be as merciless as they were. There will be degrees of punishment, depending upon the serverity of the troop's particiaption in the war, but they will receive punishment. The Commandment of THOU SHALL NOT KILL, applies to all, even the military when they are the agressor and perperturator of the crimes against another people, or, nation.

As for the civlian hordes who have rallied to support the war, the murder, the rape, the maiming, the imprisonment, the homelessness, the torture of these people in Iraq and Afghanistan, then their punishment on the Day of Judgment shall be equally harsh. For they suffer the sin of ignorance, pride, and rebellion against God's laws.

This is not only a war of agression, it is a war for the souls of thousands of American troops, and millions of Americans who support the wars.

We live upon this earth in human form for but a short time. Your soul is for eternity. There is the chance that some souls, as those of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Biden, Libby, Perle, Feith, the Kagans, Dianne Pletka, and several others, my suffer the ultimate punishment. Their souls may well be incinerated upon their Day of Judgment, not even given the comparable joy of spending eternity in Hell.

Soldiers should well guard their souls. Otherwise, they become little more than paid killers for hire, rather than the guardians of a grateful nation.

-- Posted by Robert Goodbody on Thu, Aug 28, 2008, 12:05 am CDT

Suelynn -

Figured you out as well ... Call someone a name, run, hide. Got it. Nice convictions.

-- Posted by Just_Me_and_My_Opinion on Thu, Aug 28, 2008, 12:00 am CDT

Doc,

Where ya' been, you radical soldier for change all wrapped in a crusty old shell?

Go back and read the posts from the start and you'll see the discussion was not about the wonderful GWB eceonomy, it was rather about the level of effect of our National defense spending on the deficit. Read up on the previosu posts, and then come get some.

I hate to tell you this, Doc, but there's more going on than just Iraq ... like Afghanistan, Bosnia (you know, Clinton's nearly decade old war for ... well, for whatever is was for), Pakistan, all over Africa, Columbia, etc.


I never claimed to be the voice of the "self-proclaimed educated Republicons". I just state my opinions and then I support those opinions with facts.

I cannot define conservative values and principles for everyone. I can define them for me, and I think you'll see them in my posts.

Again, in the middle of the convention, BO can't take the lead from McCain. You can spout your optimism (as you should), but again those pesky facts will get you. People aren't concerned about McCain's VP quandry right now - they're concerned with BO's lack of experience. McCain up by 2% today.

-- Posted by Just_Me_and_My_Opinion on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 11:57 pm CDT

Robert G. we could add the depleted uranium dust that the troops are forced to breath as are the rest of us are, because this stuff is floating around the earth.

We also should add the harmful effects of tainted vaccines given the troops. The anthrax and smallpox ones are the worst. The vaccine manufacturers bribed congress to give the corporations immunity from civil liability if anyone sues for tainted vaccines. ( both dems and repubs signed this travesty bill )

Many vets are afraid of the stigma of getting counseling. On top of that, Bush and the democrat controlled congress passed the "veterans disarmament bill" [sic] that makes it impossible for a vet who has any kind of depression to buy a gun to defend his family.

Then to add insult to injury congress passed the bankruptcy bill 3 years ago, which for the first time in the history of this country makes it nearly impossible for a returning vet to declare bankruptcy if they lost everything because of the stupid war. Of course the bankers wrote the bill and exempted themselves so we the taxpayers pay for their mistakes.

-- Posted by InfoWarrior on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 11:52 pm CDT

suelynn,
Thanks for the kind words. And I knew it all along! (Dog gone...I can get s=u=c=k=e=d into a debate easily.)

-- Posted by Me'Lange on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 11:42 pm CDT

Suelynn-

You want to join the debate in a serious fashion or will you just hit and run and hide? What is Me'Lange right about? Cause she ain't right about the premise of our origianl argument. She must be right about agreeing to disagree ... aka she was wrong and she just won't admit it.

Calling me names will get you nowhere, but it does lead me to believe that I can probably lump you in with some other folks in this forum who'd rather throw out one liners instead of supporting their statements with facts.

-- Posted by Just_Me_and_My_Opinion on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 11:41 pm CDT

Melange you are correct and you are wast ing your time with this ding ****.

-- Posted by suelynn on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 11:37 pm CDT

Iraq Occupation Troop Wounded through June 2008 - 30,324

Of this amount, approximately 15,000 to 20,000 of our troops have suffered injuries such as arm, and leg amputations, loss of eyesight, and severe brain damage. Those 15,000-20,000 troops will NOT be returning to the military. They are not available for a future war, that is likely to come due to the neocon-globalist-Zionist-Imperialist policies of this Bush government that have so infuriated the rest of the world, and rightly so.

Wounded By Month
Total 30,324

Jun-2008 142
May-2008 196
Apr-2008 330
Mar-2008 327
Feb-2008 216
Jan-2008 234
Dec-2007 213
Nov-2007 203
Oct-2007 297
Sep-2007 361
Aug-2007 565
Jul-2007 616
Jun-2007 755
May-2007 658
Apr-2007 651
Mar-2007 618
Feb-2007 520
Jan-2007 647
Dec-2006 706
Nov-2006 548
Oct-2006 781
Sep-2006 791
Aug-2006 592
Jul-2006 525
Jun-2006 459
May-2006 444
Apr-2006 434
Mar-2006 499
Feb-2006 343
Jan-2006 288
Dec-2005 414
Nov-2005 399
Oct-2005 607
Sep-2005 545
Aug-2005 541
Jul-2005 478
Jun-2005 512
May-2005 571
Apr-2005 598
Mar-2005 370
Feb-2005 413
Jan-2005 497
Dec-2004 544
Nov-2004 1,431
Oct-2004 650
Sep-2004 709
Aug-2004 895
Jul-2004 552
Jun-2004 588
May-2004 759
Apr-2004 1,215
Mar-2004 324
Feb-2004 150
Jan-2004 187
Dec-2003 263
Nov-2003 336
Oct-2003 413
Sep-2003 247
Aug-2003 181
Jul-2003 226
Jun-2003 147
May-2003 55
Apr-2003 340
Mar-2003 208

-- Posted by Robert Goodbody on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 11:31 pm CDT

Me'Lange -

Yes, I looked at the pdf. It had no credited author and limited sourcing. However, the slides on page 3 prove my point (although the data probably isn't as reliable as USPFO or OMB reporting that I provided). So, we're back to the same point ... you're still wrong in your original assertion.

You must master the data before you claim it in support of your point.

-- Posted by Just_Me_and_My_Opinion on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 11:29 pm CDT

"whole military efect on the deficit thing"

~growling~ I'm NOT disputing the military spending on the war has affected the deficit! Man you got a THICK head, don't you!

MY point...there have been other factors too! Now, do you get it yet???

-- Posted by Me'Lange on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 11:26 pm CDT

Just_Me_and_My_Opinion
~sigh~ You did NOT look at the pdf link, did you? It is full of economic reports that completely support my point. Here it is again, and since I have to hold your hand...will direct you to the pages even. And NO I won't be debating with you tomorrow or anytime in the future.

http://dallasfed.org/...

Checkout
p. 2 Sharp swing from surplus to deficit
p. 3 Since 2000, spending has risen, revenue fallen
p. 4 Budget outlook has deteriorated since 2001
p. 6 Discretionary spending has turned upward
p. 19 President proposes restraint of discretionary spending

-- Posted by Me'Lange on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 11:19 pm CDT

Ah, the speeches in Denver

I am hearing a theme that some of the globalst Democrats, like Hillary, Pelosi, Hoyer, Biden, and even Obama have taken up in recent months, and it not only makes me mad, but wondering where true change and relief will come from for this country.

First, it is their attack on "foreign oil" etc. The problem is not foreign oil, nor, the supply of oil left to be taken in future years. The problem is the greed of the oil companies, like BP, British Petroleum, and the unrestrained greed and hubris of Wall Street investment firms, like Goldman Sachs.

It was a Republican, Senator Gramm, with a Republican congress that passed a bill back in 2002, nicknamed the ENRON LOOPHOLE, that set free the scum of Wall Street. The bill freed them from oversight in the US, by telling them to go to foreign markets, unrestrained, with no oversight, a wild market where they could gamble, bid on stocks with no worries that anyone would be looking over their shoulder at how they were manipulating the markets.

The globalist segment of the Republcian party unleashed the dogs of greed, the Democrats have done nothing to reign them in. We get words, lots of words from the Democrats, which merely echo those of the globalist Republicans. Sure, there are Democrats out there who know the score and who have fought hard for us, and our nation. Senator Dorgan comes to mind, as does Congressman Dennis Kucinich.

However, neither Senator Dorgan, nor, Congressman Kucinich are on the ticket, and neither is likely to play a significant part in the Obama-Biden government.

I have been suspect of Obama from the beginning.

I saw him on CNBC doing his best "Step and Fetch It", good old plantion house ni**er, or, Uncle Tom to the masser, Jack Welch, former GE CEO. It was a disgusting performance. He groveled before Jack Welch who had just abnomished both Mitt Romney, and Barack Obama for giving people in Michigan hope that jobs might return to America. Just before Obama and Romney had come into view via satellite on the CNBC program, Welch had raked both Obama and Romney over the coals for promising jobs. Welch bellowed..."THOSE JOBS AREN'T COMING BACK." Both Romney and Obama kowtowed to Welch, treating him as if he were a God. Unfortunately, I felth that Obama was a little more groveling than Romney was.

Hillary, and, then Obama began to talk about green jobs. I have Obama recorded in his Economic Speech saying that globalism was good for America. He as did Kerry in 2004, says things like "Give an American a level playing field and no one can beat him." Crowds cheer, because they think that they heard that jobs were coming, or, jobs are returning, which was not the case. It was just pure smoke up their skirts, but they bought it as something more.

Obama will not bring the troops home. He now says that they will stay there to train the Iraqi troops. So, we will be spending more of our money to keep the troops there for years. We will have the largest embassy in the world in Iraq. It is the size of the Vatican. We overthrew the government in Iraq, we murdered hundreds of their leaders, their policemen, their members of the military, and murdered fathers, mothers and children with abandon. I think that there will be continued resistance to this neocon occupation.

If you look who spoke at the Democrat convention, it is very telling. Kucinich had just a bit speech earlier in the day. All the globalists got prime time spots for their speeches. All the toadies for Israel were up front, with their support of Israel.

Biden is one of those. He is a water carrier for Israel. He spoke about continuing the war with Al Queda, and with the Taliban, who Biden described as the real enemy.

First off, the Taliban were not our enemy before neocon inspired, bloodthristy Bush attacked the Afghan people. Bush joined with the Communists in Afghanistan, the very Communists who had come to power under the Russians, and, togther, they attacked and massacred the Taliban Government forces and thousands of civilians.

Biden believes that that should continue. It is the position of Israel, thus, it will be the offical policy of this government who is so bound to Israel that it is obscene.

Al Queada is so obscure. It is a catch all description that the neocons use to describe ANY resistance that comes against the New World Order. Now, the Communist Chinese, who have been brutally suppressing it's people for 70 years, claims that resistance forces in Xinjiang, one of their northwest provinces, are connected to the mystical, mysterious Al Queada. Now, to be fair, Russia, for the first time ever, did join with China in what they told the US was anti-terrorism exercises. However, the Russians and Chinese were using ICBM's in that anti-terrorism training. It isn't hard to figure out who Russia and China consider the terrorist, and it isn't Al Queada.

The globalists and neocons have held the Republican party in bondage for years. They are now clearly entrenched within the power structure of the Democrat Party.

What do you do when you have no choice at all? What do you do when neither party acts responsibly and in the best interests of the lower upper, middle and lower classes of this nation?

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

-- Posted by Robert Goodbody on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 11:10 pm CDT

Oh...one more thing...did I say "You make a statement about having some accounting and stats hobby"? Don't think I did! Re-read the original post...fyi...I have no intention of sharing my private life in a public forum, so you will just have to wonder...won't you?

-- Posted by Me'Lange on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 11:08 pm CDT

Opinion,
You said..."Me'Lange - A hit and run post ... you're almost pathetic now. Facts are facts."

First, I never hit and ran...some do have other responsibilites. Did not take kindly to the next comment and you made several very simular throughout your post to me...ie tone. Finally...I posted a link with a VAST amount of facts that YOU completely ignored, yet kept harping on undispute facts.

Thus, I choose not to debate with folks who take on the tone you have, folks who choose to ignore the other sides facts and lack respect for the other persons right to hold a different perspective of the facts. Thus, looks like you got all three strikes! I my book...that's an OUT!

Goodnight and enjoy.

-- Posted by Me'Lange on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 10:59 pm CDT

Me'Lange -

Here, I'll lay it out for you so you can get my "tone". Your entire posting session was pathetically weak, devoid of fact, and a real let down. You make a statement about having some accounting and stats hobby, but you failed to deliver on even a parasitical level. You bore me, but I won't let you spew nonsense so I'll keep counter posting and working with you so that maybe, just maybe you'll either stop making baseless claims or become enlightened on subjects so you can research them and develop a fact-based opinion. It doesn't mean that we have to agree, it just means you won't get away with ignoring facts.

If the tables were turned and you would have provided facts that disproved by position, I wouldn't have been happy (initially), but I would have admitted it. I would not have done as you did ... you know, kept on staring at the sun claiming it's the moon until I went blind.

-- Posted by Just_Me_and_My_Opinion on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 10:54 pm CDT

Just_Me_and_My_Opinion,
"come back for more tomorrow" No, thank you.

-- Posted by Me'Lange on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 10:48 pm CDT

Bald Dude-

When Dems do well, I'll say it. When Dims do bad, I'll say it. Same goes for Republicans.

Good chatting with you. I enjoy a lot of your posts, and look forward to the conversation.

-- Posted by Just_Me_and_My_Opinion on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 10:46 pm CDT

Me'Lange -

A hit and run post ... you're almost pathetic now. Facts are facts. Sleep on it, work on your research, and come back for more tomorrow.

-- Posted by Just_Me_and_My_Opinion on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 10:38 pm CDT

Ooops, did a little more reading on my firs site I offered. Maybe not the best out there so here's another one.

http://bloodcell.transplant.hrsa.gov/

-- Posted by Pups on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 10:33 pm CDT

Opinion,
"Good gosh, I almost feel sorry for you." Eh...I was thinking the same thing about you. LOL

Bedtime.

-- Posted by Me'Lange on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 10:27 pm CDT

Me'Lange -

Expenditures are not "up all over". You cannot ignore the facts and expect to be taken seriously. And if you had access to the facts I provided, why would you ignore them? And your card analogy ... I don't think you can play UNO with the hand you've got. Maybe slap jack, but definately not UNO.




Bald Dude -

Don't call me a commie and not expect to get called on it. I can take the heat, and I can dish it out, so don't drop your Rogaine when I point out that the economy of the late 90s was a Republican success story.

Which "ill advised war" are you referring to ... Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bosnia, Iraq, Sania P., horn of Africa, Columbia, Panama, etc.

-- Posted by Just_Me_and_My_Opinion on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 10:26 pm CDT

Oh looky, looky....Obama is at the convention instead of practicing at Mile High stadium for his coronation.

I thought Bill Clinton's speech was wonderful. He showed more class than his wife. Now, if you think he was sincere, that's an entire different story.

giggle

-- Posted by BABE on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 10:21 pm CDT

Me'Lange -

Stop. You are arguing with facts. Non-defense spending is down to the lowest it's been in Bush's Presidency and defense spending is at it's highest level. It's a statistical fact. Good gosh, I almost feel sorry for you.


Theorist -

More worthless banter. You questioned my truthfullness. I said bring it on, and you failed to respond with anything. Zippo. Nuttin'. Zilch.

If extra verbage means "nothing" ... Why would you type "nothing" twice in your post. Wierd. Wierd.

-- Posted by Just_Me_and_My_Opinion on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 10:18 pm CDT

Just_Me_and_My_Opinion,
Eh...you didn't share anything I didn't already have access to. Get over yourself.

-- Posted by Me'Lange on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 10:16 pm CDT

opinion,

i have read the posts and i do not dispute your debate with melange. if you read my earlier post you will see that i was backing what you were saying. however you remarked on my post and i was merely replying. if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen and stop whining. if you put something in a public forum you risk anyone debating.

btw domestic spending may be at an all time low to finance this ill advised war.

-- Posted by shortwhitebaldguy on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 10:14 pm CDT

Just_Me_and_My_Opinion,

Perhaps YOU are the ONE who can NOT read. AGAIN for the THIRD time! Perhaps, if I bolden and underline it YOU can READ it this time. ..."blaming the war cost for the deficit won't fly with me. Has it added to the deficit? Heck yes! However, expenditures for this adminstration are WAY up across the board, adding to the deficit."

-- Posted by Me'Lange on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 10:09 pm CDT

Bald Dude -

You miss the original point which was Me'Lange stating that the war on terror does not and did not contribute to the current deficit. Read all of the posts or mind your own business, but don't call me a commie when you've been too lazy to scroll and read.

-- Posted by Just_Me_and_My_Opinion on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 10:01 pm CDT

opinion,

so basically when something good happens it is the result of "your guys" and when something bad happens it is the "other guys" fault.

just as you tend to break everthing decadent in the past eight year to the two years that the democrats have controlled congress.

cowboy up opinion. there have been mistakes made within this administration. quit making excuses you sound like some liberal/commie.

on to something more important the Cards just tied the game in the bottom of the 8th!

-- Posted by shortwhitebaldguy on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 9:57 pm CDT

WHO ME?
Eh...Don't believe SS never had an "account", I believe those funds go into the general fund?

-- Posted by Me'Lange on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 9:47 pm CDT

Just Me
Hit and run, gang up, and bury you with novel sized retorts. Welcome to enlightend conversation. Brought to you by SEMO Obamaholics.
Theorist,
You said I lack compassion...really don't care what you think, but I thought you could join me in a little endeavor to help me help my fellow man more. How does bone marrow donation strike you? I really just had the thought and was doing a little research while on the road. All that needs to be done is blood test for a match, a health screening, and we're in!
I'm healthy, 35, I workout, but like the Tin Man "I don't have a heart." Lets you and me join hands and skip down the yellow (ur*ne stained) brick road and we can get you a Government home. And Poppa a cup of courage. And MJB a brain.
I am serious. If anyone has any idea for the proper channels to go through in order to do this, I would appreciate it. Theorist, you know was just kidding, but you got to like the Wizard of Oz theme!

-- Posted by fajar154 on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 9:46 pm CDT

Clinton did not reel in the budget - Congress did. Thankfully, the 1996 election was a mandate for change that manifested itself as a change for the better. Unfortunately, the 2006 "mandate" has done anything but.

-- Posted by Just_Me_and_My_Opinion on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 9:45 pm CDT

Not denying the surplus is gone and the deficit is high ... just arguing the point that the broad front war is a major contributor. Me'Lange thinks otherwise, but has yet to provide data.

-- Posted by Just_Me_and_My_Opinion on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 9:37 pm CDT

Me'Lange -

I've grown weary of Theorist's lackluster one liners and Doc is busy pushing a petition to rid us of avatar racism. Have you had a chance to counter my points?

-- Posted by Just_Me_and_My_Opinion on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 9:31 pm CDT

Then counter my points with facts, rational thought, and/or empassioned debate instead of lobbing hit and run posts that lack substance.

-- Posted by Just_Me_and_My_Opinion on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 9:25 pm CDT

"Lemons and lemonade"
"WE OWN a restaurant and it is unbelievable how people order water and then bring their own lemonade packets with them to make their lemonade. They use our ice, lemons and sugar packets at no charge. Waitresses carry this to them, refill their water for them and then they tip according to the price of the meal only, if they tip at all. It's surprising we can stay in business with customers like this."

Well, we could settle this whole issue right here. Why don't you establish a NO TIPPING policy and pay your wait staff a decent wage? HMMMM??

Some restaurants in the Cape area, pay thier wait staff about $2.00 an hour. The owners of the restaurant expect their patrons to make up the salary of their employees. Then, they have the balls to complain loudly, when some of their patrons don't cough up 15 to 20% of the bill to make up for their employers deficient wage. The employer above doesn't care if the wait staff gives good service, if his food is excellent, or, if the place is clean. He just expects the patron to provide the major portion of his wait staff's salary, so this cheap scum doesn't have to pay.

If you are so worried about your employee making a decent wage, then post NO TIPPING and pay your staff a decent hourly wage.

When did the custom evolve from one where the patron tipped, to show appreciation for good service and good food, to one where it is expected, even demanded that the patron make up the paltry $2.xx and hour salary paid by the employer with an overly genorus tip? These cheap B*****DS now cajole and harrass their patrons, making them feel, wrongly so, that they are to pay thier wait staff, regardless of the quaility of the food, or, the service given.

No, I hope that you won't remain in business long. Good ridance you cheap SOB.

-- Posted by Robert Goodbody on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 9:21 pm CDT

It was funny watching BO's campaign manager stumble this evening when asked by CNN's Anderson Cooper how BO could win enough electoral votes to secure a Presidential victory. They were using an electronic map that used a touch screen to turn States from red to blue or vice versa and the electoral count adjusted with the changing color of the States. BO's cmapaing mngr started off talking about winning Michigan (but had to be reassured he was pointing to the right place on the map), Colorado, etc. Then the conversation died, I mean went dead silent ... and Cooper ashamedly asked BO's mngr what else they were going to win because he still didn't have enough electoral votes. It was comical. The poor campaign mngr just started picking States to change color. Wow!

-- Posted by Just_Me_and_My_Opinion on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 9:17 pm CDT

You're incorrect, Theorist. I was exercising a little and then grabbed a bite to eat.

Unlike some of the others posting on this site, I'll back up my statements with facts. You know, use truthfulness and such.

-- Posted by Just_Me_and_My_Opinion on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 8:55 pm CDT

Babe, pukes and opinion are striking out. I notice they have all gone to watch Mr. Clinton seal the deal. Good Luck you guys....laughing or should I say *giggle*

-- Posted by Theorist on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 8:32 pm CDT

WhoMe,

When I lived in Michigan, they let us keep our old one for identification, they did punch a whole in it so that it wouldn't be valid. The only thing it was good for was while waiting for the new one I had a picture ID. That is the only place I have lived that did it that way.

Twiggy

-- Posted by Aggiefan/Twiggy on Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 8:13 pm CDT