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Speak out 9/2/08Tuesday, September 2, 2008
Business as usual BIG BUSINESS has been running this country for years. I realized it in the mid-90s. It's been worse every year since then. This government, from the top down, does not care about the people and is crooked to the nth degree. Those that have opposed them have been voted down in questionable "elections." Unless people rise up and actually take to arms about it (and they are too busy being educated, working, trying to keep ahead) I don't see there is much one can do. Yes we will be a third world country as I told everyone in 1995, when Newt and Clinton arranged the free trade agreements. Ignorance a choice With all the information that is available to humans, one thing is still clear: Ignorance runs rampant because one chooses it. Source of outsourcing companies are going to continue to outsource to places where people will work. In this country we have too many sitting on their rear ends waiting for their EBT cards to be filled so that they can go get more food instead of getting out and getting a job and providing for your family. Now, I'm not directing this at everyone that has an EBT card. There are some people that genuinely need help and cannot work because of their health. If we had stricter rules about welfare and actually holding those accountable that have the cards. Make the people work by giving them time limits to get a job. Frankly, I'm quite tired of paying taxes for those who won't have some pride in themselves and provide for those babies you brought in to the world. Separation anxiety Bad news for David Limbaugh. A majority of Americans (including those who are Republicans and call themselves conservatives) want politics and religion kept apart. All's fair in politics The way I see it, if Rush Limbaugh can poke fun at Obama's brother living in a shack in Africa and saying if Obama is elected that's the kind of housing we'll all have, it's perfectly OK for Obama to chide McCain for having no clue as to how many houses he and Cindy McCain own. Salaries and benefits Since all the Missouri politicians are talking about accountability, why hasn't anyone picked up on the 14 percent increase in their salaries and benefits to take effect Jan. 1, 2009. Some say they didn't vote for it so I guess they will not take that raise? The media hasn't discussed this issue. Sweeper performance Concerning the street sweepers. What do they do? All I ever see after they go through is a small stream of water. That couldn't do much. NCLB is a hot potato I don't get it. How can area schools be said to be failing with grade point averages at a perhaps all-time high? No Child Left Behind and all of its accompanying federal mandates were federal government, ideologically agenda driven laws designed to drive a nail in the coffin of the public school system. Politically, it has become such a hot potato that most of NCLB's one-time strongest advocates representing this area are getting splinters in their back sides from (when the subject come up) so much fence sitting. Kingshighway visibility I was driving south on Kingshighway the other night in the pouring-down rain. I could not see the road at all. Someone needs to put reflectors or something on the road so a person can see the lines. I would sure hate to be on the road with a new driver or an older person. Please fix this. Race and votes People keep complaining about others that say they will not vote for Obama because of his race. How is that any different than the people that will vote for him for the same reason? Apparently this nation has quite a few people that need to rethink their position and vote because of what the candidates stand for. Enrollment and raises Show me the money! OK, Southeast's enrollment is out the roof for fall, and TRCC's is at least 8 percent lower than last fall. Which institution granted a higher increase to faculty and staff? It wasn't Southeast ... go figure! New McCain mantra I want to suggest a mantra for the McCain campaign. If it is effective, it will solidify his standing with the religious right while at the same time eliminate any damage resulting from one of his recent gaffes. "In my mansion, there are many houses." License plate explanation To the person who wrote "One license plate," on some trucks with a certain weight rating "usually 3/4 and one-ton trucks" you can order two plates or specify only one plate. This is offered because it is assumed the vehicles are going to be used to tow trailers a lot in which case you wouldn't be able to see the plate anyway and also because towing could bend and scratch the plate making it unreadable and costing the owner more money in the long run to have it replaced every so often. Odd times for Democrats It's odd that Ted Kennedy would want universal health care for all Americans when he denied basic health care to a woman at Chappaquiddick. It's odd that Claire McCaskill is on vacation rubbing elbows at the convention instead of pursuing energy reform. It's odd that Joe Biden suddenly thinks Obama has enough experience to be President. It must be odd being a Democrat. Leave drinking age at 21 How many of these college officials wanting a lower drinking age have dry campuses? Seems funny that no alcohol is allowed on campus but let them legally go get drunk as soon as they get here. Leave it at 21 and how about getting on to more important issues. Really, this is stupid. Change the name It would be more realistic. Could Some Children Left Behind replace No Child Left Behind? A poor choice Droves of self righteous callers to right wing radio talk shows are now attempting to make the pitiful point that U.S. Senator Joe Biden doesn't deserve to be vice president because, when compared to the other senators, he is, get this, too poor. Comments  The nature of the Internet makes it impractical for our staff to review every comment. If you feel that a comment is offensive, use the exclamation point icon beside the comment to send a report to the webmaster.
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"Iraq's Chilling Economic Statistics"
By Ali Abunimah
Iraq Action Coalition
March 18, 1999
"Iraq's total GDP has fallen to just $5.7 billion, or $247 per capita, according to estimates by the well-respected Economist Intelligence Unit in The Economist's newly published annual supplement "The World in 1999." Just prior to the Gulf War, Iraq's GDP was more than ten times higher--around $60 billion. Last year the Economist Intelligence Unit estimated Iraqi GDP at $30.4 billion, or $1,300 per capita. This year's figure represents both a further precipitous decline, and more accurate estimates. To put this in perspective, Jordan, Iraq's tiny neighbor has a GDP of $8.6 billion. With an estimated per capita GDP of only $247, Iraq, once one of the most developed countries in the Middle East, is now poorer than many countries in sub-saharan Africa.
Just this evening I had the opportunity to attend a talk by former UN humanitarian relief coordinator for Iraq, Denis Halliday. Halliday noted that Iraq's recurring annual budget needs for health, food and essential services, is $12-15 billion. With the Oil-for-Food program, which Halliday ran for thirteen months, Iraq gets barely $4 billion. With a total GDP of $5.7 billion Iraq's economy is worth about the same as four B-1 bombers. It is worth about half of Bill Gates. The entire Iraqi economy amounts to just 2% (two percent) of the annual United States DEFENSE budget of $265 billion. The increase in the US defense budget proposed for next year by the Clinton Administration ($12 billion) is more than twice the entire GDP of Iraq. Just exactly what kind of threat can Iraq present? You do the math. "
http://www.globalpolicy.org/...
Hi Bethie
I watch both conventions and all debates, too. I love the Rublican convention because it is uplifting the spirits of the people instead of the gloom and doom of the dem convention. I guess I'm just a flag waver. giggle
sorry..eyes are tired...
should have said..
BARACK KISSING MEN* not me. LOL.
Although both ideas are ridiculous.
SWBG--
the Debates are definitely more interesting. I'm looking forward to watching them.
Robert Goodbody---
Your posts related to the war and soldiers are completely inane and offensive. It's a good thing I believe in freedom of speech....and for your sake it's a good thing all those soldiers do as well or you would have no ability to post your wild assertations.
Also--the point you are trying to make over your dumb avatar photo is making you look ridiculous. You have stood a good chance of being taken seriously...until you run off at the mouth and look crazy.
Also..I'd think your post was just as crazy if you were goin on about Barack kissing me and trying to fabricate pictures.
Rick - Please watch over fringe boy (Bobby). I'm going to bed.
The middle east is a relatively broad description, but I'll limit my point to what's commonly accepted (22 countries in 1990) ... by that definition, Iraq ranked 7th in total and per capita GDP. Today, it ranks 12th out of 26 countries.
Again, voices in your head are feeding you invalid data.
for some strange reason, my posts are posting double... Wha????
-- Posted by Robert Goodbody on Tue, Sep 2, 2008, 11:15 pm CDT
it's God's way of telling u to shut up..
...so what's ur point?
PUPS... Iraq Concentration Camp video evidence
Pups... have you watched the video link on YOUTUBE that shows an Iraqi Concentration Camp? Pretty sad stuff.
Here you go... http://www.youtube.com/...
Oh, in the photo, it is Bush on the Left and that nice bearded guy in the dress and scarf on the Right. My mistake. They look so much alike and there is absolutely no "daylight" between them, or, their lips, I got them confused.
The Iraqi economy was the strongest economy in the middle east, including that of the parasite Israel, prior to the attack on Iraq by our famous crying president, George HW Bush.
New Avatar... and a century of firsts in America.
Ah, the beginning of the new month, the beginning of Fall, calls for a new avatar. Yes, I have chosen a "Manly Kiss" avatar. You might recognize your current president as the one on the right, and a mysterious stranger in a beard and headdress on the left.
This century has seen many firsts.
1. Senator Hillary Clinton nearly won her party's nomination.
2. Senator Barack Obama, a black man, won his party's nomination.
3. Republicans were praised for having nominated and elected an openly gay man, George W. Bush to the presidency of the United States.
Bobby - I bet a "little tramp" or a "sperm donor boyfriend" or a "POS" could master the computer and only post once. You're a priceless piece of fringe, Bobby.
Bobby-
So crazy that you posted twice. Oh, and I didn't talk about "schools being built" ... must have been the voices in your head.
"Their eceonomy was the number one economy" ... Compared to whom? Not even YouTube will have something to support that baseless rant. Just for education's sake, Iraq was a somewhat prosperous country until thr Iraq-Iraq war, but it's been downhill since.
Bobby, again you don't "know" because you haven't been there. Haven't met an Iraqi. Haven't walked the streets. You don't have a base of knowledge.
My soul is fine, but you pray to Obama or Ron Paul or George Jetson tonight for your sins.
"Source of outsourcing"
"Frankly, I'm quite tired of paying taxes for those who won't have some pride in themselves and provide for those babies you brought in to the world."
Globalist swine! Typical fat cat, globalist, internationalis rethoric. Furthermore, it is not true.
You whine about people getting jobs, while you off-shore their jobs. Your worthless POS.
Another thing, I think that we all know whom you are talking about when you talk about making babies and EBT cards. Guess who is going to make a baby? That little tramp, Bristol Palin, daughter of the Republican VP candidate. If her parents weren't going to help them out becuase it is not in the spotlight, bet that she and her little 18 year old sperm donor boyfriend would be lined up to get all the perks that go with being an a little teenage tramp without resources.
Secondly, if you are so upset about all the "babies" being born, and, obviously, the color of their skin, then why the hell didn't you pick your own damn cotton?
for some strange reason, my posts are posting double... Wha????
My use of "you" and "your" are collective terms, not necessarily personal ones.
My use of "you" and "your" are collective terms, not necessarily personal ones.
How many Barack Obamas does it take to change a lightbulb?
None. Barack simply hopes and the light bulb changes itself.
"AQ was the primary enemy in Anbar. The rest of the insurgency? Iraqis, Saudis, Ethiopians, Iranians, Sudanese, etc ... many of whom needed to be killed."
Really? If the Iraqi's live in their own country, never left Iraq to harm you, then why did they need to be killed?
Where were you from? Why were you there? If you would have stayed at home and minded your own business, the Iraqi's would have fared just fine. Their economy was the number one economy prior to GHW Bush's attack upon the Iraqi people during the so-called Gulf War. Sunni and Shia intermarried in Iraq. The Jewish community in Baghdad prospered, the Christians did well, in fact, the #2 man in Iraq< Tariq Aziz is/was a Christian.
I know what you did there, or, what your occupation troops did in Iraq. You have to bear the burden that it will weigh upon your soul, especially, as the years wear on. I don't blame you for trying to talk about schools being built, but, first, lets talk about the schools that you bombed and the children whom you killed. That, sir, is a heavy burden. It is a stain upon your soul. It may not be totally reversable, you may be forgiven. However, it will require the acknowledgement and renouncement of your sin, true repentance, and attonement for you sins. The sin of murder is one of the most, if not the most mortal of sins.
When you are in your home, on your base, or, in your country, and you kill in defense of same, then that is the little out that is given for "Thou Shall Not Murder." (kill) However, when you pack your bags and head to another country, which has never harmed you, nor, your family then you are the aggressor, you are the invader, you are the occupier, you are the murderer, instead of the defender. You have stained your sould.
None of bush's pale excuses will be given one thousandth of a second of hearing before God on your Day of Judgment.
Now while being a soldier, following orders, is not an excuse for your actions, once that you are confronted with the truth, you may repent, you may atone, and you may be forgiven. However, once confronted with the truth, if you continue to defend your actions, and those of others who committed crimes, the crime of invasion, the crime of occupation, and the crime of murder in Iraq and Afghanistan, then you put your soul in an untentable situation.
I am sure that you thought you did the right thing, we all thought that, it is what you do after being confronted with the truth that matters most.
"AQ was the primary enemy in Anbar. The rest of the insurgency? Iraqis, Saudis, Ethiopians, Iranians, Sudanese, etc ... many of whom needed to be killed."
Really? If the Iraqi's live in their own country, never left Iraq to harm you, then why did they need to be killed?
Where were you from? Why were you there? If you would have stayed at home and minded your own business, the Iraqi's would have fared just fine. Their economy was the number one economy prior to GHW Bush's attack upon the Iraqi people during the so-called Gulf War. Sunni and Shia intermarried in Iraq. The Jewish community in Baghdad prospered, the Christians did well, in fact, the #2 man in Iraq< Tariq Aziz is/was a Christian.
I know what you did there, or, what your occupation troops did in Iraq. You have to bear the burden that it will weigh upon your soul, especially, as the years wear on. I don't blame you for trying to talk about schools being built, but, first, lets talk about the schools that you bombed and the children whom you killed. That, sir, is a heavy burden. It is a stain upon your soul. It may not be totally reversable, you may be forgiven. However, it will require the acknowledgement and renouncement of your sin, true repentance, and attonement for you sins. The sin of murder is one of the most, if not the most mortal of sins.
When you are in your home, on your base, or, in your country, and you kill in defense of same, then that is the little out that is given for "Thou Shall Not Murder." (kill) However, when you pack your bags and head to another country, which has never harmed you, nor, your family then you are the aggressor, you are the invader, you are the occupier, you are the murderer, instead of the defender. You have stained your sould.
None of bush's pale excuses will be given one thousandth of a second of hearing before God on your Day of Judgment.
Now while being a soldier, following orders, is not an excuse for your actions, once that you are confronted with the truth, you may repent, you may atone, and you may be forgiven. However, once confronted with the truth, if you continue to defend your actions, and those of others who committed crimes, the crime of invasion, the crime of occupation, and the crime of murder in Iraq and Afghanistan, then you put your soul in an untentable situation.
I am sure that you thought you did the right thing, we all thought that, it is what you do after being confronted with the truth that matters most.
SWBG
I loved Fred Thompson's speech especially when referring to Obama's tax plans. (paraphrased) He told Obama supporters that Obama would never tax them as he was only going to tax business. He told them that it would be nice for them if they didn't have to buy from businesses or work for one.
Bobby - There's a sucker born everyday and today is your day.
Back to Joe Lieberman ... What a great speech! He really laid it out there for the American people, and did so by simply stating that BO just isn't ready to lead the Country. Now we have the 2000 Democratic VP candidate saying BO isn't ready to go along with the 2008 Democratic VP candidate who also said BO isn't ready. Again, I don't agree with Mr. Lieberman or Mr. Biden on a variety of issues, but they've made some good points about BO's ability to lead the Country.
PUPS... Concentration Camps in Iraq...
I'm glad that you asked. Here you go....see for yourself.
http://www.youtube.com/...
And your source for this ... "With just about every Iraqi citizen in prison, murdered, or, scattered to the four winds as homeless in their own country,"
Bobby, Baghdad alone had about 6 milion people when I was there just a few months ago. We'd wait in traffic for hours during Ramadan and Ashura as the faithful moved about.
On other days, generally except Fridays (equivalent to our Sundays), the streets were filled with motorists, pedestrians, and vendors. This was not the case from basically 2005 to early 2007. But the situation is stable all thanks to a brilliant tactical strategy (the Surge) and a re-thought political strategy.
Robert -
AQ was the primary enemy in Anbar. The rest of the insurgency? Iraqis, Saudis, Ethiopians, Iranians, Sudanese, etc ... many of whom needed to be killed.
You posted last week about the lost souls of Soldiers , and how Soldiers were rapists, murderers, and plunderers. Again, have you been there? Have you walked the streets of Baghdad, Fallujah, Al Kut, Diwaniyah? Do you even know an Iraqi citizen? Have you set at a table and drank chi with an Iraq father or played soccer with an Iraqi child? There are nuances and truths that you will not know, Bob, unless you've been there.
RG,
Concentration Camps??? I would be curious to your source for this info.
The Globalist's Occupation of Iraq
I love it when these war mongers call the resistance forces in Iraq, Al Qaeda. The Pentagon has stated repeatedly, that the resistance is made up of only about 5%... for you who have difficulty with your numbers and symbols, that is FIVE PERCENT, of the resitance is made up of foreign fighters. Yet, major doofusses here, and the more calculating, sinister war mongers in the bush regime, attempt to portray all resistance in Iraq, as that of the mythical, mysterious, Al Qaeda. It is great when your made up enemy is so vague, you can make anything up the stupid American will believe it.
The globalist's Occupation Troops are rounding up everyone (those whom they haven't murdered) and putting them in concentration camps and prisons.
With just about every Iraqi citizen in prison, murdered, or, scattered to the four winds as homeless in their own country, or, refugees in Syria, I am sure that it is a little more quiet than when the Iraqi's worked together to kill the occupiers.
Palin = Joke
Lieberman = Joke
Fred Thompson = The punch line.
Hurt? Oh yes...It hurts sooo good to be rid of Joe Lieberman. He should have got the message when he wasn't re-elected. *snicker*
Palin/Lieberman differences
Palin - Former Beauty Queen and the GOP Joke.
Lieberman - Not a former Beauty Queen and a bi-partisan joke.
opinion,
Joe may have an ax to grind but it is refreshing to see someone stand up for what they at least are espousing.
It's gotta' just hurt right down to the core to see good ole' Joe Lieberman, the very man who was running as a Democratic VP candidate in 2000, stand on the stage at the RNC and proclaim the virtues of the McCain-Palin ticket.
While I disagree with Mr. Lieberman on a wide range of issues, it's good to see him standing up and doing what's right for our Country.
Yes, there's news about Iraq. I read an article today about how the US Military is handing over control of Anbar Province ... which pre-surge, was a AQ hotbed. And, Robert, I know a little about this part of the world and not because I'm reading from some obsure website.
i saw some of Fred Thompson. i was a bit disappointed with his rhetoric. he is a good speaker but that "media is against us" paranoia is getting thin. i watched some of the DNC on FoxNews and am watching the RNC on MSNBC. like to balance it out. to be honest i have mostly watched the Cardinals more so than the conventions. much more interested in the debates. the conventions are like the pep-a-rally and the debates are more like the ball game with the elction the final two minutes. sorry for the abundance of sports analogies.
WHAT??? NO NEWS FROM IRAQ?
Oh, yeah, I forgot, the war against the Iraqi people has been won, due to the SERGE, and, now, Iraq, is a study in peace and tranquility.
Wonder what this is all about?
"US announces deaths of two American Marines in al-Karmah on Thursday.
In a dispatch posted at 9:55am Baghdad time Saturday morning, the Yaqen News Agency reported that the US military announced that two of its Marines had been killed in a non-combat incident in the area of al-Karmah, a town located 7km east of al-Fallujah (which is some 60km west of Baghdad) on Thursday.
Yaqen noted that the announced casualties brought the official American death toll in Iraq to nine men killed since the beginning of August"
_____________________________________
"Bomb explodes by US patrol in northeastern Baghdad."
In a dispatch posted on its Arabic website at 6:37pm Monday afternoon Beijing time (1:37pm in Baghdad), the Xinhua News Agency reported that a bomb exploded by an American patrol in northeastern Baghdad’s ash-Sha‘b district.
Xinhua reported source in the Iraqi security services as saying that US forces closed off the area, making it impossible to ascertain any information regarding possible American casualties."
_____________________________________________
"Bomb reportedly destroys US Humvee in Samarra’."
In a dispatch posted at 7:55pm Baghdad time Monday evening, the Yaqen News Agency reported that a bomb exploded by a US patrol on the main road in Samarra’, 120km north of Baghdad on Monday afternoon.
Yaqen reported witnesses as saying that the homemade bomb destroyed one Humvee, killing or wounding the Americans aboard. The witnesses said they saw the US troops pulling their comrades from inside the vehicle and then sealing off the area." ___________________________________________________
"Suicide bomber kills US soldier, four Iraqis in at-Tarimiyah Sunday evening."
"In a dispatch posted on its Arabic website at 12:32pm Monday afternoon Beijing time (7:32am in Baghdad), the Xinhua News Agency reported that the US military had announced that one US soldier and four Iraqi civilians had been killed and two US soldiers and 21 Iraqis had been wounded when a person wearing an explosive belt blew himself up in at-Tarimiyah, 30km north of Baghdad, on Sunday.
Xinhua reported a US communiqué as saying that those wounded in the attack consisted of two American soldiers, 15 Iraqi civilians, three Iraqi government police, and three Iraqi tribal “Awakening” police. The American communiqué announced that US forces received a report that a bomb had exploded in the city and sent a detachment to investigate the report. When the US troops arrived on the scene, a suicide bomber wearing an explosive belt blew himself up, after which gunmen equipped with light arms opened fire.
Earlier a source in the Iraqi police had told Xinhua that a suicide bomber had blown himself up in the midst of a gathering of Iraqi civilians and Iraqi security personnel gathered at a vacated house in at-Tarimiyah. The family that owned the house had been planning to return to the city because of the improved security situation in the Baghdad area.
_________________________________________________
"Two Iraqi civilians wounded when bomb explodes by US convoy in eastern Baghdad Monday."
"In a dispatch posted on its Arabic website at 6:37pm "Monday afternoon Beijing time (1:37pm in Baghdad), the Xinhua News Agency reported that a bomb exploded by an American military convoy as it drove along Palestine Street in eastern Baghdad.
Xinhua reported source in the Iraqi security services as saying that the blast wounded two Iraqi civilians. No information on US casualties, if any, was available."
___________________________________________
THESE TWO STORIES below DO NOT PROVIDE DATES FOR THE ATTACKS, and could be suspect, or, just sloppy reporting.
____________
"Resistance group claims shooting of American soldier in Rawah.
In a dispatch posted at 2:50pm Baghdad time Monday afternoon, the Yaqen News Agency reported that the Iraqi resistance organization known as the Army of the Muslims, a constituent member organization in the Jihad and Change Front, had issued a communiqué.
Yaqen reported the communiqué as stating that Army of the Muslims fighters had shot an American soldier in a sniper attack in the city of Rawah, 315km northwest of Baghdad. The communiqué, which was dated Monday, 11 August, claimed that the American soldier died on the spot. The statement, however, gave no indication as to when the alleged shooting had taken place."
"Resistance group claims credit for bombing, disabling US vehicle in Baghdad.
In a dispatch posted at 4:50pm Baghdad time Monday afternoon, the Yaqen News Agency reported that the Iraqi resistance group known as the Army of the Rashidin, a constituent member organization in the Jihad and Change Front, had posted a communiqué.
Yaqen reported the communiqué as claiming that fighters for the group had set off a bomb by a US military vehicle in southern Baghdad, disabling it and wounding those aboard. The statement gave no indication as to when the alleged attack had taken place."
________________________________
Odd, nothing on our national news channels about these events. Just stuff about Palin's trampy little daughter, and nice political speeches. Keep the little mushrooms cover up with BS, and all will be well in the New World Order.
Robert - Your last post embodies why the political debate with the Left has turned somewhat meaningless.
It's good to hear, though, that you turned off C-SPAN and the Ron Paul event to watch Fred Thompson at the RNC.
PALIN'S trouble due to MEDIA accoringing to Fred
Wow, since I gave up RUSH for Lent, 15 years ago, I have forgotten how stupid Republicans can be. Mindless, don't think for themselves, and cannot be educated to the truth.
Tonight, Fred Thompson reminded me of the above fact. Fred launched into a tirade against the media, the Democrats, and others for the problems of Palin. When I was one of them, I did the same thing too.
The Republican Convention is just a sad, sad commentary on the intelligence of most Americans.
Let us pray.
Re: sweeper performance
Not being intimately familiar with the high-tech cleaning strategies of street sweepers, would suggest that based on their size and relative water-carrying capacity that the water would be intended more for dust suppression than for truly 'washing' the streets.
Re: Kingshighway visibility
Reflectors would be nice, but certainly would not be a cure-all to ensure absolute safety of everyone driving in all conditions. Suggest it is still the driver's responsibility to drive within their abilities for the given conditions. Should 'someone' also put up four-foot poles to mark the lanes in case of snow and ice?
Re: ignorance a choice
As long as claiming ignorance can be rewarded, some will have no issues with taking that path as the easy way out. After all, the phrase 'ignorance is bliss' had to come from somewhere. Sometimes, even I like being the 'happy camper' :-)
Re: health care
Suggest that some companies are not experiencing the 'average' premium increases due to implementation of decreased coverages - higher co-pays, a greater percentage of costs passed off on the user, a higher limit before 100% coverage kicks in, etc.
While that approach may seem mean-spirited and downright evil, have to keep in mind that employer-paid health care costs can be a significant portion of one's total compensation package for those who have employer-sponsored coverage. When that portion is experiencing double-digit percentage increases every year, it can limit what the employer is able to offer in other areas, such as annual raises and market-based salaries, while staying competitive in their respective markets and being able to attract new talent.
and if you don't like QVC, they are also running a Petticoat Junction marathon on the TMC channel. Lot's of laughs with Uncle Joe and Bobbi. "That's Uncle Joe, movin' kinda slow..."
OBAMA and the WHITE VOTE
Yes, probably a lot of white fokes will vote Republican this time. During the (West?) Virgina Primary, Jon Stewart aired an interview clip with one of their finest representatives of humanity in that state.
The woman was very, very slobby, matted, strangly blondish hair, not many teeth, and a sleeveless dress that exposed much of her fleshiness.
The interviewer asked her if she had voted in the primary for Senator Obama. Turning to the camera, and exposing some of her remaining blackish teeth, she said "NO!" The interviewer asked her, "Why not?" To which she replied in a nassle, unrefined southern drawl. "Well, yuuuuuu know, he's blaccccck."
There may be many reasons to not vote for Senator Obama, but his blackness has nothing to do with it.
Once again, he gave an excellent speech last Thursday night, and should have known when to stop.
"We may not agree on abortion, but surely we can agree on reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies in this country. The reality of gun ownership may be different for hunters in rural Ohio than for those plagued by gang violence in Cleveland, but don't tell me we can't uphold the Second Amendment while keeping AK-47s out of the hands of criminals. I know there are differences on same-sex marriage, but surely we can agree that our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters deserve to visit the person they love in the hospital and to live lives free of discrimination."
If he were competing for the independent, and disenchanted Republican voter, he lost their votes with that paragraph. A paragraph which he could have avoided all together. For, when he mentions AK-47's, in any regard, other than " I own one, too" he causes problems for himself, that he should have avoided. He brought up the subject of abortion. Which his supporters aleady know where he stands, and for those who oppose abortion, just him mentioning it in that manner, sent up a roadblock red flag.
I want to hear him repudiate globalism. He has stated his support for globalism, both here in Cape Girardeau at Thorngate, and again in his ECONOMIC speech.
I think that the DOCTOR has stated that Democrats have a hard time of fighting back during an election. I think that he has a very good point.
Last Thrusday night, I mentioned to a female Democrat that the issue of selecting judges is always brought up against Democrats. I said that all the judges who murdered Terri Schiavo were Republicans, and the only two judges who tried to save her life when the case went to the 11th Circuit in Atlanta were Democrats.
She replied, in the extreme liberal vane, that she thought Terri Schaivo was in pain and should be allowed to die. I said that her parents wanted to keep her alive, she said that they were just wanting to hold on and didn't care about Terri's pain. I said that her former husband, Michael Schaivo had been shacked up with another woman for years, and had two kids by her, thus his motive for killing Terri were more personal than wanting to honor her wish to die, which she had told only to him, in the event that she was in such a state.
How many of you women who have a adulterous husband would give them the power of attorney to kill you?
In the arugment on who will select the next judges, to win independents, to win Republicans, you don't spew your extreme thinking about "right to die," and all that crap, you tell them that the only two judges to try to save Terri Schaivo's life were Democrats.
Just read where Sarah Palin as mayor wanted to know how she could go about banning certain books at the local library. We sure need fruit-cakes like this.
"Oh good grief...the dems are really getting their underwear in a wad of Sarah Palin's nomination. Now they're floating the idea that she can't be an effective VP because she has five children at home, one being a special needs child. In fact, I'm laughing so hard I have the hiccoughs."
-- Posted by BABE on Tue, Sep 2, 2008, 5:43 pm CDT
Ironically enough, Babe, I find this to be the most hypocritical of all. Almost all the women's libbers...for example, NAG..I mean, NOW...identify themselves and liberals and are lobbyists for the Dems. Yet here they are...throwing women under the bus by saying a woman can't do an effective job if she has a family. It really seems that a lot of folks who spout the view that as a woman you really can have it all....only mean it if it applies to themselves. They appear petty, jealous, and hypocritical.
I have felt this about a lot of the loud minority of women clamoring as lobbyists though....because they also want to persecute women who work in industries they deem unacceptable (exotic dancing and prostitution, for example).
Also Babe..I'm watching the Convention. I watched the DNC as well.
JustME and SWBG--
The policies at the company I worked for saw an average increase of 5% this past year. Some plans were higher increases and some plans had no increases. I know that for our company's purposes large groups were considered any group that had over 50 members (employees) and small groups were less than 50. One thing that effects some small group coverage is that they do not always pay as billed. For example---they have 44 members and are billed $2500 for the quarter. Halfway through the quarter they drop 10 members and then add 4 different members. Instead of paying the $2500 billed and allowing the changes to process....they try to figure it up themselves and pay $1950. It ends up all jacked up and can actually affect their rates...as well as running the risk of being paid "out of tolerance" and losing coverage for the entire group from being so significantly past due.
REPUBLICAN DOCUMENTARY ON THE ELECTION OF GEORGE W. BUSH AS GOVERNOR TO BE AIRED ON TCM Thursday morning at 04:45am.
This polished, well produced documentary on how George W. Bush became the governor of Texas is well worth setting your VCR to record.
The title of this Republican Documentary is THE DARK HORSE. Don't miss it this Thursday morning at 04:45am on Charter Cable channel 39.
THE DARK HORSE
"A political machine backs a dimwitted candidate for governor." Cast: Guy Kibbee, Bette Davis, Warren William. Dir: Alfred E. Green. BW-75 mins, TV-G 1932
QVC has some great dust mop reruns on all this week. 7:00pm - 11:00pm, Tonight through Friday. Don't miss it.
RON PAUL's counter convention is being broadcast on CSPAN-2. Cable channel 29. It is great to see CSPAN carrying such a noble event.
It is so refreshing to find intelligent people. It gives one hope that there are sufficient numbers of people who are awake and who MAY be willing to resist at some point along our pathway to tyranny.
RON PAUL is on CSPAN-2 cable channel 29
Mr Goodbye
You probably wrote it....giggle
"Business as usual" in Speak Out
"BIG BUSINESS has been running this country for years. I realized it in the mid-90s. It's been worse every year since then. This government, from the top down, does not care about the people and is crooked to the nth degree. Those that have opposed them have been voted down in questionable "elections." Unless people rise up and actually take to arms about it (and they are too busy being educated, working, trying to keep ahead) I don't see there is much one can do. Yes we will be a third world country as I told everyone in 1995, when Newt and Clinton arranged the free trade agreements."
----------------------------------------------------
Wow! I am impressed that there are people in the area who are waking up, or, who have already awaken to the very grave circumstances that face our nation. COngratualtions for being able to get past all the roadblocks thrown in our way on the path to enlightenment. You educated yourself as to our problems, instead of being fluffed off and dumbed down by NASCAR, sports, SO YOU THINK THAT YOU CAN DANCE, AMERICAN IDOL, BIG BROTHER, SURVIVOR, and other mind numbing fare designed to distract Americans from what is going on in this country and the world.
I would be glad to buy you lunch at the Global Cafe on Broadway, at West End Bvld., next to Kidds.
Bald Dude,
I can't remember where I read it (possibly the Kaiser Foundation site), but I read where what are termed large businesses (more than 200 employees) that their healthcare costs have declined for the last 3 years (national average) while small business (3-9 employees) have gone up and caused more to go into the uninsured or self insured pool. I'll have to go back and read some on that later tonight because I'm just not well versed enough. I do know that since 1970, healthcare costs have gone up on average about 7% a year which has outpaced GDP growth by about 2%.
On a personal note, my wife's insurance has a small deductible, but her premiums have gone relatively unchanged in the last several years. This may be aided by the fact that she utilizes my military coverage as a secondary policy which probably offsets some of the costs.
I'm sure everyone's case is different. I just like to ask a few questiosn when people talk about personal situations.
opinion,
moderate sized businesses routinely have health insurance costs increases yearly. it is independent of any one individuals health. a company of say 100-200 employees can see their costs go up tremendously if one person would have a bad year.
also at several of these size businesses it is required by the employer to participate in the health plan as that is the only way to get coverage for everyone. i currently have a $2500 deductible.
now your previous post discussed the cost of gas relative to income since 1949. while we as a nation have been the beneficiaries of cheap gas for several years i would be interested to see how that comparison would work for health insurance premiums.
Is anyone watching the convention tonight?
JustUs-
"My health insurance just went up another 25%...again!"
Why? What changed? If your policy has gone up by 25% and your health status or risk factors haven't changed, I'd suggest that you looked on the open market for another policy.
"My new home is worth less than I paid for it."
Why? Did you pay too much to start with? Can you not afford it now? The market is a temultuous booger, but historically, housing and land are solid investments.
"Gas has doubled in 4 years."
Exceprt from a CATO Institute study: Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke worries that increasing fuel prices might eat up so much disposable income that it flat-lines consumer spending and tanks the economy. But it's difficult to square that worry with what we call the "affordability index" - the ratio of the average person's disposable income to the price of gasoline.After studying the average yearly price of gasoline from 1949 to 2007, and assigning the number "1" to the ratio in 1960, we found today's prices comparable to what they were in 1960 (1.35 today to 1.00 in 1960, with a high of 3.32 in 1998). The higher the gasoline-affordability index figure, the lower the price of gasoline relative to disposable income.The "real" price of gasoline: Gasoline cost 27 cents a gallon in 1949 compared to around $4.00 today.* How has the relative cost of buying gas changed over the last 59 years? Presented here are two tables computing the annual "real" cost using our five indicators, one in 2007 dollars, the current number used for real GDP, and the other in 1949 dollars. While the two tables show the same trends, they do give a different perspective.
Exceprt from Samuel H. Williamson, "Six Ways to Compute the Relative Value of a U.S. Dollar Amount, 1774 to present," MeasuringWorth, 2008.
Using the 2007 table and the CPI and the GDP deflator, we see that gasoline was quite expensive in 1980 and 1981 and the cheapest in 1998 and 1999. Today, the real price using these two measures is higher than the period at the beginning of the 1980s. By looking at the share of the Consumer Bundle and GDP per capita, the story is a bit different. In 1981, a gallon of gas took as much out of what the average consumer spent as $4.00 does in 2007. And as a share of GDP per capita, gas was even more expensive in those earlier days with it at over $4.50 in 1980 and more expensive in the earlier years. The other table tells the story in a different way. Let us look at relative cost to an unskilled worker to fill up using 1949 dollars. That year the 27 cents it cost for a gallon of gas, took a certain share of the worker's wage. The interesting question is, has the cost as a share or percent of the worker's wage increased or decreased over time? The table shows that for the wage rate and price of gasoline in other years, this cost has fallen. Since wages have increased faster than the price of gasoline, by 2007 an unskilled worker spends only two-thirds as much, as a percent of wage, for a gallon of gasoline than the 1949 worker.
Finally, comparing its cost as a share of GDP, we see that in 1949 prices, it is about 6 cents. This means that a gallon gasoline was a four and a half times larger share of output in 1949 than it is today.
SWBG
Do you think it's big enough for her family? giggle
babe,
a bit presumptuous. however thanks as i did not know where the VP lived.
This will be Vice President Sarah Palin's new home....
http://www.whitehouse.gov/...
My health insurance just went up another 25%...again! My new home is worth less than I paid for it. Gas has doubled in 4 years.
O'Biden, you got me listening! Who cares about taxes?!
Oh good grief...the dems are really getting their underwear in a wad of Sarah Palin's nomination. Now they're floating the idea that she can't be an effective VP because she has five children at home, one being a special needs child. In fact, I'm laughing so hard I have the hiccoughs.
Babe
You are correct personal should mean personal but sad to say it seems we are loosing more and more of our privacy.
KCPO - I understand your point and respect your opinion on this issue as I do those of Bald Dude, semoangle, red, bethie, etc. Have a good evening. It was a pleasure to read, learn, and grow with you all this afternoon.
Doc - You still have nothing relevant to offer to the conversation. (However, have you noticed how posters can debate a subject like healthcare and intelligently disagree by using facts, experiences, and well thought out opinions?)
Bill Clinton?? Did I mention him?
JustMe,
No, I don't know you nor you me. I am very happy with how my life has turned out and my philosophy is not so far removed from yours as you might think. I made my choices and lived with the consequences, never complained and never will. I am proud of my career and the fact that I am financially secure and will never have to rely on anyone for anything.
I will, however, go with Red and SWBG on this one as I am not willing to let others suffer for my own benefit and if it costs me a little more one way or the other, so be it.
I'm out for now.
Bethie - The idea of paying into insurance is based on risk factors, some that I can control, some that I cannot control. What I can control, I control and my civilian policies reward me for not abusing my freedom of choice. Others in my family have chosen to stick money into a personal protection plans that are devoid of shared risk. Again, CHOICE.
Red_Rhino - It's not about disconnecting myself from other's decisions, but it is about everyone accepting personal responsibility. Again, I'm not an aboslutist on this issue, but it is my basic ideology. If you smoke, pay for your own ignorance. If you drive fast, pay for your illegal behavior. If you have a disease or condition that was in no way shape or form a product of your own decisions and choices, then except it as your lot in life.
I think the main point here is if people make a choice of health insurance, get accepted and pay the premiums then their privacy shouldn't be invaded as to their lifestyle or dropped because they actually need the insurance.
Bald Dude - Excellent post ... well thought, coherent, and intelligent. However, paying for others' decisions (i.e. smoking, couch potatos, driving fast, drug addicts, etc) versus paying for a just society (infastructure, public education, defense, etc) are two very different issues. I can see your point, and I'm not an absolutist on this issue.
Red_Rhino - It's not necessarily a sacrifice to serve in the military, and I'm glad your son doesn't complain because many of us find this occupation to be an extremly rewarding profession. Military members volunteered/CHOSE to serve in the military, just like the choice everyone else makes in their occupation. The point remains that we have freedom of choice.
Just Me--
By participating in insurance at all you are choosing to shoulder someone's burden. The whole premise of insurance is risk...the idea that some folks won't use it but will pay..and that others will use more than they pay for. If you truly wanted to shoulder only your own burden, you'd CHOOSE to pay out of pocket. That is the only way you will be completely free of anyone but yourself.
I don't see how you can avoid the comparison from all of the "I", "Me", "You", and "they" comments. I too find your statements at dissonance with your military service, but that is what I am hearing.
However you try, you cannot disconnect yourself from the decisions others make and how your decisions affect others.
KCPO - I wrote my posting before I read your's ... pretty scary, I might have been reading your mind.
You don't know me nor I you, but suffice to say I'm far from young (sadly) nor naive. I just suscribe to a basic belief that we have freedom of choice, and more often than not, correct choices lend themsleves to a good life. Now, I could leave the post today, get hit by a car, get discharged from the military, and have to start over. But I would start over.
If you don't like your healthcare plan, job, house, etc then make change. And don't give make an excuse for where you are in life. We all made personal decisions thru God granted freedom of choice and His grace that got us where we are today.
opinion,
i'll go with red on this one. there is a certain amount of moral and social responisbility that we all must bare. that is if we are to have a just society. now that does not mean that it is socialism.
one of the things that Marx foresaw (incorrectly I might add) was the implosion of capitalism. the reason that capitalsim has not imploded is that there are business cycles that have the ability to correct the market. socially the ability of this great republic in which we live has also helped ensure an opportunity for people and helped with people who are not able to help themselves.
i may not be in favor of universal healthcare but i believe the current system is broke. we are not all soldiers but we all should have the ability to afford quality healthcare.
Semoangel70,
It certainly is a shame. I must add that my son has never complained and never will about his pay or insurance premiums as he loves his job as he loved being in the military for almost eight years. He is devoted to public service and helping others and is willing to gladly live with the downside as is his family. As his father, however, I wish he and those like him did not have to sacrifice so much.
The decisions we made yesterday, last week, last year, and the decisions we make today will affect us "30 to 40 years from now". Accordingly, I live within my means, invest wisely (not to get rich, but for a rainy day), and try to take care of myself. It's not surefire receipe for success, and most of us relaize that we're not in total control of our own desinty. However, if my lot in life suddenly took a turn for the worse, I wouldn't expect you to shoulder my burden. I haven't in the past when I fell on rough ttimes, and I don't think I will in the future.
I don't think you can lump subscribing to the "every man for himself" philosophy and serving in the military in the same sentence, but it's certainly your right.
My point is that we all make choices, and I don't want to be held liable for your choices (i.e. if you smoke, I don't want to pay for your increased health risks ... that's your responsibility).
JustMeandMyOpinion,
I am sorry, but I just have to laugh. One must be either very naive or very young or both to feel that they are in control of their destiny and the only things that affect their lives are the choices "they" make.
Red
It is pretty sad when you see an officers salary and then think about all of the risks they have to take on a daily basis. Sure they chose the profession but where would we be without them.
Semoangle,
If your brother is a Soldier, then I'm sure you're aware that he CHOSE that profession. He could have CHOSEN to work at a factory, or be a policeman, or whatever. Also, military members PAY for life insurance thru the military. It's great life insurance and extremly competive, but it's only good until we retire or get out and then we can either keep the policy (at a rate increase of about 115%) or look on the market. I'll CHOOSE what I'll do when I retire.
Health and dental are free for Soldiers, but there are various co-pays and restrictions for families. Again, it's great insurance that we CHOSE to qualify for thru enlistment and service.
We all can CHOOSE to except our lot in life or CHOOSE to seek an alternative path.
Just_Me,
You may choose to subscribe to the "every man for himself" philosophy, but I think I will pass. I would be interested to see if your philosophy changes over the next thirty to forty years.
Semoangel70,
My son is a Police Officer and his insurance premiums are way too high, but apparently that does not bother some people. He was also a soldier.
Semoangle,
Sorry to hear about your father, but he had a choice to opt into an employer health coverage or buy from the market. The market is usually more expensive, but you can avoid some of the devilish details. Other than that, I don't know all the other details, so I can't speak to the issue.
Again, it's not my inherent responsibility to shoulder another person's burden - that's a premise of socialism. If I choose to opt into shouldering other's repsonsibility, there are plenty of ways to do that, but we all have to carry our own load in life.
Sorry but my brother is a soldier and he has health care through the military for him and his family PLUS he has death benefits that are all part of it. Now when he retires he can choose to keep it and then he will have to pay for it but as long as enlisted it is furnished.
Sorry but my brother is a soldier and he has health care through the military for him and his family PLUS he has death benefits that are all part of it. Now when he retires he can choose to keep it and then he will have to pay for it but as long as enlisted it is furnished.
Cape4SomeLife --
First, you implore: "Do me a favor and take away your (all Dems) hatred of Bush."
Then you turn right around and dump your tired old wingnut propaganda on Bill and Hillary. How about you do me a favor and take away your (all Repubs) hatred of Clinton. Meeting people halfway will yield better results for you.
Red_Rhino ...
Sorry, but that's the way it works. It's no different than for me, as a Soldier, I cannot get certain life insurance coverage and when I can, I have to pay more for it. I don't whine about it because I have this amazing freedom to choose my lot in life, to overcome adversity, and to make personal decisions. (The military also offers my family and me a competitive life, health, and dental plan that I CHOOSE to pay into.)
The fireman may have to pay more in life insurance, but he gets some great perks with his job and, again, he/she CHOSE that profession.
Here's a great site for healtcare demographics: http://www.statehealthfacts.org/
Red
Sorry but police, firefighters etc do not get paid enough as it is for the risks they take the least can do is try to keep their insurance affordable.
Just_me
My father was never sick. In 33 years he never missed a day of work due to illness. He paid the premium on his health insurance every week right out of his check. When he was diagnosed with cancer guess what they dropped his coverage. When he was healthy they took his money and yet when he got sick he was a burden and driving up health costs for the other employees. He took the burden of their illnesses and injuries but they couldn't take the burden of his. Actually it doesn't matter health premiums are through the roof no matter what the health of the person or the pre-existing conditions.
Sure, make Police Officers and Firefighters pay higher premiums because they might get killed or injured trying to save your a$$; makes sense to me.
Bald Dude-
So who pays the higher premiums for the higher risk?
If you smoke, chew, don't exercise, don't eat right, drink too much, suck on caffeine all day, have a high risk job or hobby, etc then you need to pay the piper. If you have a health condition that you cannot control, I'm sorry, but that's not my "burden" to shoulder.
blah blah,
not all obesity is a choice. not all obese people sit and eat twinkies. does it happen? sure. however give an inch and insurance companies will take a mile. older people tend to be the biggest drain on health insurance. the uninsured also are a drain as they do get treatment then the hospitals raise rates for everyone else.
to suggest that obese people result in your higher premiums is fallacious. maybe your contempt should be at all those aging baby boomers. it will get worse before it gets better.
SuperBethie & SWBG,
I agree with you completely, I am going to have to change health plans due to the penalty though it is called an "incentive".
Bla,Bla or whomever,
Sit in a car and let the driver hit a telephone pole and lets see how active you are, how much you can exercise and how healthy you remain.
Cape4Life- Obviously, you haven't been drinking OJ (obama juice) or you wouldn't be thinking that clearly. Obama has cast 130 "present votes", hasn't done anything legislatively significant, and his most significant accomplishment prior to public life was a "community organizer". But alas, Obama is an outsider who will change everything ... just trust him, he doesn't need to provide you a platform of substance. Prose and theatrics should suffice.
Even his own VP choice (Biden) said Obama didn't have enough experience to be President (at least not yet) and even asked McCain to cross party lines and run. Of course, none of that is news. Now, a 17 year old getting pregnant who is going to marry the child's father ... now that's news!
Thanks for the discussions today. I am off to my second job and will have no computer access so, have a good night all and try to keep it civil.
Okay, got a little immature with the twinkie-treadmill comment. I do apologize.
Shortwhitebaldguy,
I was speaking of people being obese. Not diseases. Before you all attack, no, I do not believe that obesity is a disease. My opinion.
Semoangel made my point for me as well by saying that even though she has ms and is limited by the type of exercises she can do, she is still not obese. She does the types of exercises she can do.That is all I am saying, do something and be accountable for your health to the best of your ability. don't just expect me to sit by and not be irritated because my insurance premiums are higher because you opted for the year supply of twinkies instead of buying a treadmill.
Folks with higher health risks are paying more. If your healthy premium is $200/mo...an unhealthy person with same age and location might be $400/mo or more for identical coverage.
Often this is not reflected if you have a group health insurance plan because the employer is subsidizing a portion of the plan.
The_Doctor
Hey let's see your report on Clinton as Gov of Arkansas. How many churches burned? 0. How many snippers were firing at her in the middle east??? 0 Don't give me no crap about it being Bill, remember they were a team.
opinion,
your logic is flawed. the person with the sports car has a choice whether to purchase the car and thus pay the higher insurance. the person with a genetic predisposation does not. in addition those with more seious health problems would also be less likely to be able to pay higher premioums thus running the risk of being a burden. not saying those with illnesses are necissarily a burden.
BABE RE Clinton supporter and Sarah Palin :
They do not need or probably expect Clinton supporters to vote for McCain-Palin. They only want the ones on the fence. That is all the election is - which way the middle goes.
ALSO do me a favor and take away your ( all Dems ) hatred of Bush and do this.
Picture Obamas word coming out of his mouth but sound like George W's voice and they way he talks. Now would you support Obama. IT is just a slick package, like a pet rock.
Just Me,
Agree completely. You have said what I was trying to get across in my far from perfect way of expressing myself.
If you drive a sports car, you deserve to pay more in insurance premiums than someone driving, say, a Ford Focus simply because of the propensity to drive faster, replacement costs, theft rate, etc. YOU should have to pay for that additional risk that the insurance company is insuring, not the guy driving the Ford Focus. (Don't get all hung up on the "what ifs", just take the analogy for what it is.)
Likewise, if you have a greater propensity for health risks (i.e high blood pressure, family history, overweight, etc), YOU should be paying the additional risk of being insured, not the guy who has no health risks.
Not bragging. My body is far from perfect, but I work at being in the best shape that I can be as both sides of my family have a history of many illnesses that will at some point take away my ability to be in the shape that I desire. So my point is, if it is possible to be in good shape at this time of my life, why would I give in to laziness and cravings that serve no purpose? I know everyone loves to bad mouth and attack someone that has the desire to better themselves, because that is human nature. But your judgements of me being soooo lucky to be in this shape are far from realistic. It's not luck, it's years of discipline. Beth, agree to disagree. You make valid points and I take them into consideration.
It's like employers who will try to punish you for photos on your personal myspace that were taken during non-work hours. It's none of their business...
as long as you can meet the position requirements then they have no right to infringe.
Thus..if you drink..but do not show up to work under the influence and/or you do not drink on the job..
if you smoke...but you don't take unauthorized cigarette breaks or choose to smoke in their non-smoking building...
or etc...then it is NONE of their business and they need to go fly a kite.
I don't need them to be my mommy. I've already got one!
Right you are Super Bethie and Babe. It really P.M.O when I hear people say, "well if you are not doing anything wrong, why would you care if someone looks in to your private life or goes through your medical records."
And I agree about the health Nazi's. I used to smoke cigarettes many years ago and it would really P.M.O. when people would goad me about smoking and that I shouldn't do it. I never heard much from the people who never smoked, it was from the ones who had quit. It's the same with the health Nazi's. Just because they can get fit doesn't mean other people struggle with it. Maybe it is laziness maybe not.
Our insurance premiums will continue to be high even if everyone becomes fit overnight. Remember when they said our car insurance rates would go down if we gave up our freedom and were forced to wear seat-belts? Now I believe in wearing seat-belts, but the government should have stayed out of it. And the rates have gone up.
In Texas they sold voters on the fact that if we passed tort reform for medical mal-practice, medical insurance would be reduced. You guess what has happened there.
Sure we would all be better off being fit. And we would all be better off if the fit people would give encouragement instead of ridicule.
Must be nice to be in perfect health and have the perfect body and then blame everyone else because you have high insurance premiums. Sorry but I am 38 and until 2 years ago I was very active, stayed well underweight and very few health problems and then bam I was diagnosed with MS and it all changed. Being limited on the type of excersice I can do also means not as much fat burned and while I am not fat I carry a few extra pounds now. Don't brag about your health it can be taken from you in a heartbeat.
Bethie
I agree with you. I also find it an invasion of privacy when a company mandates that no employee can smoke even in their own home and requires them to take random tests.
A company hiring an employee cannot, by law, ask for any medical information to be included in the interview. Now why should they have access to that information after employment?
Regardless of "flabbiness" or what you might perceieve to be flabbiness..my point was that different shapes would still be different sizes. Saying "only a 24 inch waist" passes would not necessarily fit all body types. Can you at least see my point?
I gather we are going to have to agree to disagree. I have a good understanding of health insurance premiums and how they are rated..but it's significantly lengthy to post in entirety here. I think you don't care if someone's privacy is invaded if it benefits you. JMO. I doubt you would feel the same if it were something private about you that they would be delving into. Not criticizing you...but that is simply human nature.
This outrages me...not at you..but at the sheer fact that everyone is so willing to sit around and let government and employers butt into your private life. It saddens and disgusts me that so many people don't care that the boundary is getting fuzzy and dissolving.
blah blah
One of these days your perfect body will give out on you either through aging, disease or accident. I dislike folks who brag of their health and physical fitness as if they and they alone were responsible for their perfect health by being disiplined .
yes, I took the bmi test. Passed with flying colors. Amazing what a little discipline will do for a body. I do agree that there are different body shapes, but none of them (pear, hourglass, etc.) explain a flabby stomach hanging over your pants or arm flab waving long after whoever you were waing at is gone. As far as premiums being affected by where I live, etc; small town America, in my mid 30's. Most of the people I work with are in the 30-50 range with a few older people mixed in. The majority of the older people here are actually in better shape than the younger ones. More respect for themselves in my opinion.
Did you take the BMI test?
I'm telling you..I know several athletes who have low body fat and almost zero health problems who are considered obese by that stupid chart. Skinfold test doesn't look at your overall bodyfat...it's merely a pincher on the lower part of your upper arm. As for waist circumference...who determines what is is normal or healthy for someone's circumference? Science has already shown that there are different body shapes (predispositioned shapes---pear, hourglass, etc.). People with different body shapes are going to have a different circumference.
As for your premiums...did you know that the two biggest factors in your ratings are the age of your pool and your location? Those weigh in even more than the claims that are processed by your overall plan. Thus---if more of you live somewhere considered high risk...or fall into an age category that is considered high risk (children, teens, college age students, and older adults) then it wouldn't matter one lick about anything else...your premium would be higher.
Beth: I understand that the premiums are not overpriced simply because of the overweight people that are also on this plan. But a large amount of our claims are for people with high blood pressure, diabetes, knee replacement, bad ankles, etc. The majority of these are results of being overweight. Per the article you posted, Alabama is using a bmi of 35 as their standard for considering someone obese. Typically, a bmi of 30 is considered obese. Not overweight, but obese. For example, someone that is 5'4" tall would have to weigh over 201 lbs to be considered obese. The article also stated that skinfold and waist circumference are factored in as well. I have family members that have medical conditions that cause them to weigh more than they should, but they don't use that as an excuse to be obese. Not slightly overweight, but obese... There is not excuse for that, but lack of will power and laziness. JMO
All I hear---
I worked in health insurance until I had my baby three months ago. Your outrageous premiums are factored by a lot of things---not simply obesity. Would you feel the same if they targeted something that applied to you? Also--have you ever known anyone with a condition that could cause obesity? I have--and they are being discriminated against. Heath records and things of that nature are private and protected information. Your job has no right to them unless they impact how you perform your position...and even then only limitedly.
Also---did you take the BMI quiz that was listed? My husband was a college football player (a linebacker) with very low bodyfat percentage..but the government standard doesn't look at bodyfat. It simply looks at height vs. weight..thus classifying him as obese when it couldn't have been farther from the truth.
The_Doctor--
I had just been to several websites and didn't see any articles related to your ****BREAKING NEWS****...hence in my mind it was ***BRAKING** news until I could determine if it was merely opinion.
Re: Alabama
Missouri State Employees are charged higher insurance premiums if they do not enroll in a "Lifestyle Ladder Wellness Program". If you are considered to be at medium or high risk you have to coordinate with a "Health Coach" and make regular reports on your activities.
"Are yall kidding? Sarah Palin will not draw in any Hillary supporters and the party knows this. Actually, I think you're insulting the supporters to assume they were voting for her gender and not her ideology. They won't be voting for conservative Sarah."
-- Posted by BABE on Tue, Sep 2, 2008, 1:20 pm CDT
I completely agree with this.
Thanks Babe
My husband was there waiting on it to be fixed. My landlord was the one that was supposed to be there at 8:30 and didn't show until 10 so I wouldn't know how to go about taking care of that one LOL
OK well never mind it said that it was going to post just a one word post but it didn't so never mind that oops factor there.