ST. LOUIS -- Two down-on-their-luck NFL coaching geniuses get a chance to butt heads this weekend.

Mike Holmgren, who led the Green Bay Packers to a pair of Super Bowls in the 1990s and has spawned six head coaches, and Mike Martz, the offensive architect behind the Rams' two title game appearances the last three seasons, have one win apiece in mid-October. One of the slumps will have to continue.

"He didn't start out the way he wanted to, and I'm going through it now," said Holmgren of his underachieving Seattle Seahawks (1-4). "Stuff happens. If you stay in this business long enough, it happens."

The two have been acquainted for about 20 years, and used to recruit against each other in the college ranks. Martz calls Holmgren "one of the all-time great head coaches."

"When you look at what he's done, you really kind of study him in terms of how to do things, I think he's remarkable," Martz said.

The last two-plus seasons, Holmgren's results have been rather ordinary (16-21). This season, he's learning to be a good loser.

"You can't point fingers," he said. "You really start and end with yourself. And if your team realizes you're willing to do that, what can a player say?

"You can't con them and you've got to be honest with them, and you have to be yourself."

The Rams (1-5) took a huge step out of purgatory last week when, with third-string quarterback Marc Bulger looking like the next Kurt Warner, they knocked off the previously unbeaten Oakland Raiders 28-13. A win today and the Rams, 14-2 last year, head into their bye perhaps feeling they've parachuted out of the free fall.

"I'm just thinking about this win and how good it felt," defensive lineman Tyoka Jackson said. "Food tastes better, the drive home is better, the dog, he smells better. To win, it's just so much better, and we just need to do that again."

In Holmgren's mind, the Rams are a slumbering giant.

"If you can get out of it, that's really showing something," Holmgren said. "I hope he takes it easy on us."

The Seahawks have a tough road back, too, with the next two games on the road, and this one on short rest following their 28-21 Monday night loss to the 49ers. After this week, Seattle plays at Dallas.

Holmgren said it's been difficult coaching a team loaded with youth, especially on offense.

"We do dumb stuff at times," Holmgren said. "It's kind of like raising your kids, you hope and pray, and eventually you hope it's going to work."

Penalties have hurt the Seahawks all season. They were whistled 10 times for 80 yards against the 49ers.

"It seems like every game it's the same thing, turnovers and mistakes," running back Shaun Alexander said. "Each week we get better, but we also have someone making a new mistake."

Speaking of mistakes, a week ago the Rams had to be uneasy about handing the quarterback job to Bulger. The former sixth-round pick knew nothing much was expected.

"I have to do the interview, but I don't have to read what people are saying," Bulger said. "I'm sure it wasn't good, and I'm sure there are going to be naysayers this week, so I'm just going to stick with what I'm doing."

Bulger was 14-for-21 for three touchdowns, ran for a fourth and had no interceptions against the Raiders. This week, he has more time to prepare after Martz selected him the starter on Monday. He didn't know he was the guy against the Raiders until two days before the game.

Another possible boost for the offense: All-Pro offensive tackle Orlando Pace might return from a torn calf muscle to shore up a banged-up line. Bulger was sacked three times and hit numerous times by the Raiders, and expects to see lots of blitzes from the Seahawks.

Last week Grant Williams, Pace's replacement at left tackle, was lost with a broken leg, and the injury set up a chain reaction of juggling on the line. Right tackle John St. Clair moved to the left side, guard Tom Nutten moved to right tackle, and reserve Heath Irwin moved into Nutten's old spot at left guard.

"Guys are shifting around, but everybody went out and played hard, and that's the key," St. Clair said. "If we communicate, everything should be fine."

The Seahawks are a bit banged up entering the game. Cornerback Shawn Springs (foot), Alexander (knee), wide receiver Darrell Jackson (quadriceps), tight end Itula Mili (quadriceps) and linebacker Anthony Simmons (ankle) all are questionable.